[POLL] Proposal for on-chain minimum profit margin for all Nym nodes

[HappyGiZ]

good idea. voted yes

[blanker-mn2]

I vote yes, because some node is quite small to get enough fees to cover the cost, and this minimum profit margin will help the small nodes to grow and go decentralized in the future.

[sergisimi]

Yes, as was stated by the previous authors:

• It helps small operators compete with the big teams and popular nodes.
• Current 5% profit margins makes it almost impossible to break even.
• Ensures fairer competition and helps cover costs.

If the marker contidion change, the min margin can always be altered in the future.

[noisk8]

really you looks like a bot dude

[JohnSmithPR]

This is what I thought as well

[xAlex]

Voted yes. Is just the beginning

[JohnSmithPR]

Another comment from me. I think that we should have a more formal approach to proposals in the future. This is obviously subject to discussions for all the community members but I think there should be a framework (similar to NSL). For example, if I want to propose anything, I would go here, post a topic, explain my proposal using certain structure. What do you think @sudonym ? I guess this may have been discussed / already in the pipeline. I heard about NIP standard and it may be the framework I guess.

[konstantin]

Gateway is also a Nym node. Will a minimum profit margin be applied to it?

[hello_16]

We just have a lot of mixnodes and almost fully saturated

[nicklo_gw]

Salutations to the distinguished node operators!

In my opinion, setting a minimum profit margin does not affect the profitability of the node operator. It is important that each node operator has the freedom to independently set the margin size in accordance with their goals and tasks. Any restrictions on the margin size can reduce competition.

The main factor affecting the profitability of a node is the size of the delegation and its saturation. An incentive delegation of 250,000 NYM does not allow nodes to compete with nodes of large participants, as most of the time they are not in the active set. As a result, the profitability of such nodes is not 15% APY, but only 3-4%.

To stimulate node operators, it is necessary to increase the size of the incentive delegation. To determine the competitive size of the incentive delegation, it is necessary to analyze the number of nodes belonging to large participants and make a decision on further actions. Perhaps it is worth limiting the number of nodes from one participant or revising the size of the active node pool.

Setting a minimum margin will not affect the profitability of nodes with delegation sizes less than 250,000 NYM. For nodes participating in incentive delegations, the question should be not about the minimum, but about the maximum permissible margin, provided that the size of the incentive delegation will allow competing with nodes of large participants.

[wunderbaer]

There is currently no way to delegate to a gateway as you do can to a mixnode. so no, minimum margin will not be applicable to gateways.

Cheers Wunderbaer

–

Hermes Stakepool Germany

[saliveja]

I beleive a minimum profit margin is important, but implementing it on contract level removes flexibility. I am indecisive. I wish we could develop a culture which is promoting sustainability and long term perspectives for the benefit of all of us and the development which Nym is a part of building., instead of needing to enforce it like this.

[sudonym]

Good point John. Yes, NIPs (Nym Improvement Proposals) should serve some of this functionality, they are coming soon. They will formalize community proposals. Like I mentioned earlier, the current system is that Nym team proposes and the community votes. Our proposals however will always be informed by you, the community, whether it’s through NIPs or just the discussions on Matrix and elsewhere, just like with this current proposal

[sudonym]

Thanks for the feedback Saliveja! Implementation via the contract is secondary actually - what matters is that, in case the proposal passes, the rule has to apply to all nodes to keep it fair. Do you agree? Also, do you see other ways of implementing this change other than on the contract level? Please let me know if so, alternatives would be great

[saliveja]

sudonym, I’m sorry I don’t have any tangible proposal and therefore leave it to the consideration of those responsible for implementation. I know asking for a certain culture is unhelpful as reality tells us something different.

[stakr.space]

voted yes, minimum profit margin is necessary

[Hux_Max]

Hey everyone, nice to see this conversation about this topic.

I’m personally on the fence about the necessity of on-chain (+backwards applicable & centralised) enforcement of such settings because I have a bit more market-friendly / self-regulatory views in this sense.

However I do see the need to start nurturing a culture which enables operators to make better profit by operating a node, especially in the light of the coming era when smooshed nodes will provide the backbone for the Nym VPN.

So I will abstain from this vote, but would like to offer a perspective for everyone who participates: Let’s treat this as a temporary experiment, which will be in place until a proposal is being put forward to vote on this matter again. (and maybe to remove this limit or to increase etc…)

So as we are moving forward with decentralised governance, gradually opening up the space for node operators to self-govern, we can look at this vote as an experiment - and if after 1-2-3 months the effects are deemed not good or questionable, then we can again put it up to a vote to remove the min PM.

What’s important is that we listen to each other and strive for consensus in creating the future of a robust and antifragile mixnet together.

On this note, we are working hard in the background to summarise the governance rules of this initial phase, expect a longer article to be published on this during the days to come.